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	<title>Comments on: Sean McGrath&#039;s obit for SOA</title>
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		<title>By: Mike Champion</title>
		<link>http://quoderat.megginson.com/2005/07/02/sean-mcgraths-obit-for-soa/#comment-237</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Champion]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jul 2005 03:06:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;d be very happy to see the SOA acronym be publicly executed and buried in a deep hole, so I hope the *term* is DOA.  I like the idea of salvaging the useful bits that emerged from the SOA hype, but I suspect there are radically divergent opinions on what they are -- every time this permathread cluster re-emerges, we agree to disagree on overarching principles but agree that most of these ideas have applicability in specific domains - even the much-scorned RPC in 3-tier architectures.

Sean says &quot;The industry only has itself to blame....Now the market thinks the tech. companies are pulling a stunt and they are largely right.&quot;  I for one blame the analysts, not tech companies.  The analysts make their living inventing over-arching concepts and then going around to explain what they really mean, and how EII is really very different from the old-fashioned idea of EAI, and how an ESB is quite different from a MOM, ad nauseum. I see the tech companies (at least the smaller ones) jumping thru the analysts&#039; hoops on this stuff, trying hard not to be stuck in the &quot;lower-left quadrant&quot; by failing to ride the buzzword bandwagon.

I very much agree that &quot; Trying to convince customers that all the temporally coupled, three tiered architectures they had where, in reality,special cases of a beautiful new over-arching theory called SOA, has backfired.   The dangerous bit here is the attempt to erect an over-arching theory over heterogenous reality.  REST is another over-arching theory and needs to be treated with just as much skepticism. so that we don&#039;t jump  from the SOA frying pan into the REST fire.

Question for those who remember the gool ol&#039; days better than I do:  Didn&#039;t we go thru much the same hype / confusion cycle with OO in the early &#039;90s?  Wasn&#039;t OO declared DOA at some point early on when the &quot;software ICs&quot; vision didn&#039;t materialize and the religious disputes of the  sort  &quot;should a square be a subclass of rectangle&quot; starting breaking out?  Wasn&#039;t C++ just as much of a hideous mass of misbegotten complexity as WS-* (and just as hated by the Smalltalk / Eiffel purists)?

There is little doubt that the &quot;services revolution&quot; (if it happens) will be seen in retrospect as underwhelming as the &quot;OO revolution&quot; does today ... but that&#039;s quite a ways from saying that it is DOA.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d be very happy to see the SOA acronym be publicly executed and buried in a deep hole, so I hope the *term* is DOA.  I like the idea of salvaging the useful bits that emerged from the SOA hype, but I suspect there are radically divergent opinions on what they are &#8212; every time this permathread cluster re-emerges, we agree to disagree on overarching principles but agree that most of these ideas have applicability in specific domains &#8211; even the much-scorned RPC in 3-tier architectures.</p>
<p>Sean says &#8220;The industry only has itself to blame&#8230;.Now the market thinks the tech. companies are pulling a stunt and they are largely right.&#8221;  I for one blame the analysts, not tech companies.  The analysts make their living inventing over-arching concepts and then going around to explain what they really mean, and how EII is really very different from the old-fashioned idea of EAI, and how an ESB is quite different from a MOM, ad nauseum. I see the tech companies (at least the smaller ones) jumping thru the analysts&#8217; hoops on this stuff, trying hard not to be stuck in the &#8220;lower-left quadrant&#8221; by failing to ride the buzzword bandwagon.</p>
<p>I very much agree that &#8221; Trying to convince customers that all the temporally coupled, three tiered architectures they had where, in reality,special cases of a beautiful new over-arching theory called SOA, has backfired.   The dangerous bit here is the attempt to erect an over-arching theory over heterogenous reality.  REST is another over-arching theory and needs to be treated with just as much skepticism. so that we don&#8217;t jump  from the SOA frying pan into the REST fire.</p>
<p>Question for those who remember the gool ol&#8217; days better than I do:  Didn&#8217;t we go thru much the same hype / confusion cycle with OO in the early &#8217;90s?  Wasn&#8217;t OO declared DOA at some point early on when the &#8220;software ICs&#8221; vision didn&#8217;t materialize and the religious disputes of the  sort  &#8220;should a square be a subclass of rectangle&#8221; starting breaking out?  Wasn&#8217;t C++ just as much of a hideous mass of misbegotten complexity as WS-* (and just as hated by the Smalltalk / Eiffel purists)?</p>
<p>There is little doubt that the &#8220;services revolution&#8221; (if it happens) will be seen in retrospect as underwhelming as the &#8220;OO revolution&#8221; does today &#8230; but that&#8217;s quite a ways from saying that it is DOA.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Lacey</title>
		<link>http://quoderat.megginson.com/2005/07/02/sean-mcgraths-obit-for-soa/#comment-236</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter Lacey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jul 2005 17:46:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Here&#039;s my answer to the web services, WS-*, SOA litany of trials: http://wanderingbarque.com/ws-reloaded.  I think it addresses most of the points of the above.  Make that &quot;will address.&quot;  This is early stage, embryonic, vestigal thinking, and slow moving too.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s my answer to the web services, WS-*, SOA litany of trials: <a href="http://wanderingbarque.com/ws-reloaded" rel="nofollow">http://wanderingbarque.com/ws-reloaded</a>.  I think it addresses most of the points of the above.  Make that &#8220;will address.&#8221;  This is early stage, embryonic, vestigal thinking, and slow moving too.</p>
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