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	<title>Comments on: A farewell to tabs</title>
	<atom:link href="http://quoderat.megginson.com/2009/08/05/a-farewell-to-tabs/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://quoderat.megginson.com/2009/08/05/a-farewell-to-tabs/</link>
	<description>Open information and technology.</description>
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		<title>By: Susan</title>
		<link>http://quoderat.megginson.com/2009/08/05/a-farewell-to-tabs/#comment-2781</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Susan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:05:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.megginson.com/blogs/quoderat/?p=252#comment-2781</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hm, interesting.  Our website also uses tabs - maybe something to think about.  Anyway, your site seems like a great source of airport information so I&#039;ll keep it in mind for the future. Thanks for this.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hm, interesting.  Our website also uses tabs &#8211; maybe something to think about.  Anyway, your site seems like a great source of airport information so I&#8217;ll keep it in mind for the future. Thanks for this.</p>
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		<title>By: Ralf MC</title>
		<link>http://quoderat.megginson.com/2009/08/05/a-farewell-to-tabs/#comment-2780</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ralf MC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 13:45:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.megginson.com/blogs/quoderat/?p=252#comment-2780</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I actually use tabs to refresh a tabbed page. Certainly, an airport information page can change by the second, so maybe others do what I do?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I actually use tabs to refresh a tabbed page. Certainly, an airport information page can change by the second, so maybe others do what I do?</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Gratton (mjog) 's status on Monday, 10-Aug-09 08:58:43 UTC - Identi.ca</title>
		<link>http://quoderat.megginson.com/2009/08/05/a-farewell-to-tabs/#comment-2779</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Gratton (mjog) 's status on Monday, 10-Aug-09 08:58:43 UTC - Identi.ca]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 08:58:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.megginson.com/blogs/quoderat/?p=252#comment-2779</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] http://www.megginson.com/blogs/quoderat/2009/08/05/a-farewell-to-tabs/ &lt;-- people don&#039;t understand tabbed interfaces (or just web pages?) [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://www.megginson.com/blogs/quoderat/2009/08/05/a-farewell-to-tabs/" rel="nofollow">http://www.megginson.com/blogs/quoderat/2009/08/05/a-farewell-to-tabs/</a> &lt;&#8211; people don&#8217;t understand tabbed interfaces (or just web pages?) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: david</title>
		<link>http://quoderat.megginson.com/2009/08/05/a-farewell-to-tabs/#comment-2778</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[david]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 13:01:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.megginson.com/blogs/quoderat/?p=252#comment-2778</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks, Tom -- it never occurred to me that people would realize the tabs all referred to information about the airport.  My site is arranged hierarchically, with breadcrumbs indicating the level (e.g. World-&gt;Continent-&gt;Country-&gt;Region-&gt;Airport) and tabs indicating the different dimensions at the current level, but once again, that&#039;s a developer/data-management mindset, not a user mindset.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Tom &#8212; it never occurred to me that people would realize the tabs all referred to information about the airport.  My site is arranged hierarchically, with breadcrumbs indicating the level (e.g. World-&gt;Continent-&gt;Country-&gt;Region-&gt;Airport) and tabs indicating the different dimensions at the current level, but once again, that&#8217;s a developer/data-management mindset, not a user mindset.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Passin</title>
		<link>http://quoderat.megginson.com/2009/08/05/a-farewell-to-tabs/#comment-2777</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Passin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 03:14:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.megginson.com/blogs/quoderat/?p=252#comment-2777</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[David, as I look at your example page, I notice something neither you nor the comments have mentioned so far.  I can&#039;t really tell that the other tabs refer to the same airport as the main tab does.  In fact, my initial impression was mostly that they don&#039;t.  So I wouldn&#039;t tend to click on them to get more info about a specific airport.

Yes, &quot;Nearby Airports&quot; does hint that it is related, but it doesn&#039;t automatically suggest to me that every *other* tab is so related.  I realize that it wouldn&#039;t take much experience to realize that they are in fact related, but you are supposing that visitors are mostly unfamiliar with the site (have you been able to work out how many repeat vs new visitors you have been getting?)

Also, the inactive tabs fade into the background enough that I notice it takes me some noticeable effort to decipher them (I suppose it would be a bit easier on an actual page, which would be larger than this screen shot.

Perhaps these factors play a part.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, as I look at your example page, I notice something neither you nor the comments have mentioned so far.  I can&#8217;t really tell that the other tabs refer to the same airport as the main tab does.  In fact, my initial impression was mostly that they don&#8217;t.  So I wouldn&#8217;t tend to click on them to get more info about a specific airport.</p>
<p>Yes, &#8220;Nearby Airports&#8221; does hint that it is related, but it doesn&#8217;t automatically suggest to me that every *other* tab is so related.  I realize that it wouldn&#8217;t take much experience to realize that they are in fact related, but you are supposing that visitors are mostly unfamiliar with the site (have you been able to work out how many repeat vs new visitors you have been getting?)</p>
<p>Also, the inactive tabs fade into the background enough that I notice it takes me some noticeable effort to decipher them (I suppose it would be a bit easier on an actual page, which would be larger than this screen shot.</p>
<p>Perhaps these factors play a part.</p>
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		<title>By: david</title>
		<link>http://quoderat.megginson.com/2009/08/05/a-farewell-to-tabs/#comment-2776</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[david]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 22:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.megginson.com/blogs/quoderat/?p=252#comment-2776</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks to everyone for the comments.

Ed: Thanks for the nice comment about the site!  To date, I haven&#039;t done any user testing, because OurAirports has just been a hobby site for when my consulting work is slow (or when I want to procrastinate).  I&#039;m thinking of trying to grow it into something a bit bigger, though &#8212; if not a business, perhaps a sideline &#8212; so I&#039;ve been investing a bit more time recently.  As a non-designer (I&#039;m a development/data guy), it&#039;s been a challenge for me &#8212; it&#039;s easy enough to learn the technical bits, like fluid CSS layouts, but hard to get my head into usability mode.

Paul: What you describe is fairly close to what is currently in place (least-used tabs are on the right, and each tab covers a different dimension of airport information), but it doesn&#039;t seem to be serving well: I&#039;ve ended up designing a site organized around my developer&#039;s data-oriented perspective, rather than a user&#039;s task-oriented perspective.  People don&#039;t visit sites looking for dimensions or other information-organization systems; they visit to accomplish tasks, as Hoekman hammers home in &quot;Designing the Moment&quot; (something I wish I&#039;d read two years earlier).

Nathaniel: I don&#039;t know what the best solution is for web sites in general, but for OurAirports, I&#039;m planning to add a small box beside the map presenting the most probable tasks that a user would like to accomplish on each page, clearly described, with a link to a &quot;More&quot; popup (or something similar) giving the whole list.  For an airport, wanting to see arrivals or departures is much more likely than wanting to see more technical information, and putting that all at the same level in tabs makes it harder for people to find the most important stuff.

* * *

In general, I&#039;m coming to think that tabs are probably useful for web apps that are function like desktop apps, where people spend hours working every week (think Google apps or webmail) &#8212; people have time to learn those apps well, and will probably find the consistency of the same tabs on every page to be a benefit.  For sites like mine, though, where most visitors stay only a few minutes, I think the information overload and confusion of a tabbed interface might outweigh any benefit.  *I* find the tabs useful, and I&#039;m sure a few of my power users do as well, but I wondering if that&#039;s true of the majority of my visitors.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks to everyone for the comments.</p>
<p>Ed: Thanks for the nice comment about the site!  To date, I haven&#8217;t done any user testing, because OurAirports has just been a hobby site for when my consulting work is slow (or when I want to procrastinate).  I&#8217;m thinking of trying to grow it into something a bit bigger, though &mdash; if not a business, perhaps a sideline &mdash; so I&#8217;ve been investing a bit more time recently.  As a non-designer (I&#8217;m a development/data guy), it&#8217;s been a challenge for me &mdash; it&#8217;s easy enough to learn the technical bits, like fluid CSS layouts, but hard to get my head into usability mode.</p>
<p>Paul: What you describe is fairly close to what is currently in place (least-used tabs are on the right, and each tab covers a different dimension of airport information), but it doesn&#8217;t seem to be serving well: I&#8217;ve ended up designing a site organized around my developer&#8217;s data-oriented perspective, rather than a user&#8217;s task-oriented perspective.  People don&#8217;t visit sites looking for dimensions or other information-organization systems; they visit to accomplish tasks, as Hoekman hammers home in &#8220;Designing the Moment&#8221; (something I wish I&#8217;d read two years earlier).</p>
<p>Nathaniel: I don&#8217;t know what the best solution is for web sites in general, but for OurAirports, I&#8217;m planning to add a small box beside the map presenting the most probable tasks that a user would like to accomplish on each page, clearly described, with a link to a &#8220;More&#8221; popup (or something similar) giving the whole list.  For an airport, wanting to see arrivals or departures is much more likely than wanting to see more technical information, and putting that all at the same level in tabs makes it harder for people to find the most important stuff.</p>
<p>* * *</p>
<p>In general, I&#8217;m coming to think that tabs are probably useful for web apps that are function like desktop apps, where people spend hours working every week (think Google apps or webmail) &mdash; people have time to learn those apps well, and will probably find the consistency of the same tabs on every page to be a benefit.  For sites like mine, though, where most visitors stay only a few minutes, I think the information overload and confusion of a tabbed interface might outweigh any benefit.  *I* find the tabs useful, and I&#8217;m sure a few of my power users do as well, but I wondering if that&#8217;s true of the majority of my visitors.</p>
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		<title>By: Megginson Technologies: Quoderat » Blog Archive » A farewell to tabs</title>
		<link>http://quoderat.megginson.com/2009/08/05/a-farewell-to-tabs/#comment-2775</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Megginson Technologies: Quoderat » Blog Archive » A farewell to tabs]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 22:55:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.megginson.com/blogs/quoderat/?p=252#comment-2775</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Continue reading here: Megginson Technologies: Quoderat » Blog Archive » A farewell to tabs [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Continue reading here: Megginson Technologies: Quoderat » Blog Archive » A farewell to tabs [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nathaniel Flick</title>
		<link>http://quoderat.megginson.com/2009/08/05/a-farewell-to-tabs/#comment-2774</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nathaniel Flick]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 22:41:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.megginson.com/blogs/quoderat/?p=252#comment-2774</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Okay, a few things:

1. You use tabs and sidebar navigation as well here on your website. Comments?
2. I&#039;m not understanding what your proposed solution is to tabbed navigation?

Check out http://www.amazon.com for how they&#039;ve answered this question. It&#039;s actually quite innovative.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, a few things:</p>
<p>1. You use tabs and sidebar navigation as well here on your website. Comments?<br />
2. I&#8217;m not understanding what your proposed solution is to tabbed navigation?</p>
<p>Check out <a href="http://www.amazon.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com</a> for how they&#8217;ve answered this question. It&#8217;s actually quite innovative.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Sholar</title>
		<link>http://quoderat.megginson.com/2009/08/05/a-farewell-to-tabs/#comment-2773</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul Sholar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 16:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.megginson.com/blogs/quoderat/?p=252#comment-2773</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Not much analysis here, mostly David&#039;s gut response. The tabs should collect distinct *dimensions* of the selected entity&#039;s attributes, or perhaps segregate the attributes of the various child objects that are related to the higher-level data entity being presented, with less &quot;important&quot; dimensions (or child objects) placed at the right end of the tabs list.

//Paul K. Sholar (Twitter @bkwdgreencomet)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not much analysis here, mostly David&#8217;s gut response. The tabs should collect distinct *dimensions* of the selected entity&#8217;s attributes, or perhaps segregate the attributes of the various child objects that are related to the higher-level data entity being presented, with less &#8220;important&#8221; dimensions (or child objects) placed at the right end of the tabs list.</p>
<p>//Paul K. Sholar (Twitter @bkwdgreencomet)</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Rice</title>
		<link>http://quoderat.megginson.com/2009/08/05/a-farewell-to-tabs/#comment-2772</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ed Rice]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 15:38:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.megginson.com/blogs/quoderat/?p=252#comment-2772</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[really cool site though. I&#039;ll use it next time I fly.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>really cool site though. I&#8217;ll use it next time I fly.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Rice</title>
		<link>http://quoderat.megginson.com/2009/08/05/a-farewell-to-tabs/#comment-2771</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ed Rice]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 15:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.megginson.com/blogs/quoderat/?p=252#comment-2771</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tabs will die but probably evolve first. I don&#039;t think tabs are the problem in this example. Have you done any user testing to find out why users are clicking on the &quot;airport&quot; tab??? Analytics is great to identify problems but doesn&#039;t always explain the cause.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tabs will die but probably evolve first. I don&#8217;t think tabs are the problem in this example. Have you done any user testing to find out why users are clicking on the &#8220;airport&#8221; tab??? Analytics is great to identify problems but doesn&#8217;t always explain the cause.</p>
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